«rek» whats the command to compile lets say. stupid.c [Cypher] lol@Raven «jobber-d» :P «jobber-d» rek do you know where one can get partition magic? «@Raven» oh my god rek are u trying to compile some script kiddie exploit? «rek» nope «rek» no, i'm trying to compile a stupid program that i'm writing «elad» at your local software store, heh «@Raven» rek, for the sake of it (just don't do anything stupid), it's: «rek» and i dont wanna do it for windows «@Raven» gcc source.c -o executable «jobber-d» for free :) «@Raven» rek, you'd better be telling the truth... «rek» if u hack from a shell «rek» you will get caught «rek» no doubt about it «jobber-d» unless you connect from somwhere else and use a differnt username «elad» not hack, crack. «rek» well i'm from my house «elad» you dont need a shell to hack. «elad» you dont need a computer to hack. «jobber-d» it helps «jobber-d» it helps «rek» hehe «elad» jobber-d; no. «jobber-d» hehe «jobber-d» the best hacking tool: a sharp axe [Cypher] elad; do you mean Social Engineering? «@Raven» elad is right, u need a spellbook «@Raven» Cypher, no «@Raven» Cypher, do u know the original meaning of hacking? [Cypher] yeah «@Raven» uhm i don't think so «elad» hacking is making furniture out of wood «@Raven» alright go ahead Cypher, tell us «jobber-d» haha «elad» hence, the #ashtray lumberjack «elad» lumberjackz.. «@Raven» Cypher i don't mean this kinda meaning «@Raven» ok the OTHER meaning of hack «@Raven» does anyone here besides me and elad know what this means? «jobber-d» to be one with the computer (?) «@Raven» jobber-d, u can do THAT with an axe «@Raven» i don't mean that kinda thing «jobber-d» isnt it like being very savvy with a computer, knowing multiple programming codes, multiple OSs, and you enjoy it? «@Raven» ok, here's what: «@Raven» i'll give u 24 hours to find the REAL meaning «@Raven» jobber-d, no «@Raven» that's just being a computer wiz «jobber-d» ah «@Raven» i'll give u 24 hours to find the REAL meaning [Cypher] Hacker = A person that is interested in something more then the average expert. A person dedicated to knowledge. A person driven by curiosity :-) (not exactly correct but the meaning that's worth something) «jobber-d» i wonder what eric raymond has to say «@Raven» everyone, come back tomorrow, same time, and we'll discuss this «jobber-d» alright cool «@Raven» Cypher, that's a good start *** Joins: airborne (slipknot@uu212-190-7-198.unknown.uunet.be) «airborne» lo «@Raven» hi airborne «jobber-d» hey «@Raven» Cypher, i'll help «airborne» what a nice and warm welcome over here :) «@Raven» a hacker would try things that are irrational «@Raven» illogical «@Raven» things that aren't in the manual «@Raven» and see what happens «@Raven» a hacker wants to test his limits [Cypher] a person trying something out of the defined box «@Raven» see what he can and can't? «@Raven» see what he can and can't «jobber-d» a hacker has an instiable curiotity «@Raven» who said u cannot drill holes in your computer's box to cool it out? «@Raven» (it really works btw, makes it a tad faster) «jobber-d» hehe «@Raven» that kinda thing «@Raven» see? now we won't have to meet tomorrow to discuss this «@Raven» i already gave u the main comcept *** rek is now known as rek_away «@Raven» i already gave u the main concept «@Raven» so in other words: «jobber-d» not our fault :) «@Raven» i hacked this and that doesn't mean i cracked into it «@Raven» it means that i did something rather kewl with it that makes it exceed beyond it's limitations «@Raven» do something that it's not supposed to do «@Raven» uncover undocumented features «airborne» making a bootdisk that has a tiny registry on it is another example of a hack, ain't it right [Cypher] a hacker is actually a programmer «@Raven» CREATE undocumented features «@Raven» sorta «@Raven» Cypher, not necessarily [Cypher] usually «@Raven» he could be a guy with a really large hammer «elad» being a hacker has nothing to do with computers folks «@Raven» Cypher modern hackers are usually programmers as well «jobber-d» exactly «@Raven» elad exactly «jobber-d» the man who created the wheel was a hacker. he thought outside the box * Cypher is gonna try something now - may disconnect (in that case - brb) «pirx_away» i rather like the definition in the jargonfile «@Raven» gee, i wanna see if i can fly this really old airship, dated back from World War II, in 300KMPH «@Raven» jobber-d, right «elad» being a hacker is first of all a level of understanding what you are, hacking is a state of mind «@Raven» gee this wood is completely straight «@Raven» let's bend it in the form of a wheel and see what happens!! «@Raven» whoa!! it spins around! kewl!! «pirx_away» for me, hacking is about a passionate curiosity «jobber-d» a hacker must also be curios «elad» pirx; the jargon refers to the computer-related term «pirx_away» elad: well thats the original meaning isnt it:) and not many ppl use it in disparate contexts anyway «jobber-d» wel not many people realize that a cracker isnt a hacker, either «elad» a cracker is a hacker that uses his skills in order to break the law [Cypher] btw, anyone logging this? «jobber-d» oops «airborne» yup «jobber-d» crackers are classified as many things: as someone who decodes programs so they dont need identification... «jobber-d» or as a script kiddie... «jobber-d» or as elad said «@Raven» but airbone got in here in the middle of the discussion «elad» being a cracker is far from being a script kiddy «elad» look at it that way [Cypher] so i'll just cut&paste from the channel «@Raven» jobber-d that's another meaning of the word cracker «elad» assuming you have 3 definitions and 3 types of people «@Raven» Cypher send me the logs, then *** Quits: rek_away (rekaerf34@208.25.255.97) (Leaving) «elad» cracker, hacker, script kiddy «airborne» cypher i'm logging [Cypher] k «airborne» but i ain't got all of it «@Raven» from the beginning of the discussion «@Raven» airbone u weren't here at the beginning «elad» someone who break into systems after understanding them and finding a hole himself is a cracker «airborne» nope «@Raven» someone plz copy&paste everything from the beginning of the discussion [Cypher] i'll do it «@Raven» yup, although finding the hole yourself might be considered "elite"... «@Raven» he still broke the law «@Raven» which is dumb «@Raven» IMHO «elad» someone who knows a lot about a certain field (programming, unix) and do work for the community of that field is a hacker «airborne» not unless he notifies the ppl who previously 0wned the server/program that contains the hole «elad» someone who knows nothing but how to compile a pre-written c source or script and use it to gain fame is a script kiddy «airborne» _previously_ «elad» heh, you mean telling them you have found a hole and then using it? «elad» its still cracking «airborne» not _then_using_it_ «jobber-d» if you find a hole, thats finding a use for the program other then its intent. «@Raven» airborne, yes, but even if he notifies... «airborne» telling them and if they don't solve it _show_ them «@Raven» if he still has bad intentions «@Raven» he's a cracker «@Raven» airborne, that's another good point «airborne» yup, bad intentions are bad «@Raven» u see, when u find a hole «@Raven» and tell the vendor «@Raven» and he keeps ignoring you «@Raven» there's no other solution but to go public with it «elad» no «elad» no no no! «jobber-d» bugtraq «@Raven» to force it to take care of it's security «elad» no! «jobber-d» hehe «airborne» and going public means a lotta scriptkiddies jumpin in (bad) «elad» you do not publish a hole until there's a fix «@Raven» elad, with instructions for admins «jobber-d» taking the law into your own hands :) «elad» look look people «@Raven» elad but what if they've been ignoring you for months? «elad» where does script kiddies find their scripts from? «elad» lists like bugtraq! «jobber-d» its better then someone else finding out and then using it personally «elad» understand my point? «@Raven» you're right «@Raven» damn right «@Raven» i agree with u «jobber-d» what else are you gonna do though, elad? «elad» you could write your own fix «@Raven» ok so EVEN if you're being ignored, don't go public, right? «elad» if its open source - easy «airborne» keeping it to yourself ain't good either, someone else - with bad intentions - is bound to find it too «elad» unless you have a fix «@Raven» elad, so ur saying that if u write a fix u can go public with it? «jobber-d» elad: everyone would get lz and wouldnt bother anymore to patch their stuff «@Raven» and send out the fix «@Raven» let admins have it «@Raven» but also force the company to release an OFFICIAL fix «jobber-d» if the good people were doing it «elad» its a lot easier if its open source though «airborne» if you ain't got the source then it ain't a fix, but a workaround. And there are ways around workarounds «@Raven» elad, and if u really can't write a fix, like if u found a bug in, say, NT 4, that allows a malicious cracker to predict sequence numbers or something «@Raven» something that u simply cannot write a fix for «@Raven» since NT is soooooooooo unopen-source «@Raven» but u do have a workaround... «@Raven» a temporary fix «elad» you publish the workaround «elad» but listen «@Raven» can u still go public? «elad» the real experts hang in newsgroups «elad» many people read newsgroups «elad» 10 times than the people who read bugtraq «airborne» m'kay «pirx_away» hate that when people reason like this: "well i found this hole and told the admin, but he didnt do anything to fix it, so i exploited it to show him/her how bad security he/she has" «@Raven» ohh i get your drift! «elad» so you might want to find some nt newsgroup (maybe on a microsoft server) and release it there «@Raven» noone searches through usenet for holes!! «elad» exactly. «jobber-d» only for plugs «@Raven» ohh wait but what if someone, could be even someone from bugtraq, finds it and publishes it? «@Raven» it happened before «jobber-d» then its out of your hands «elad» well you cant prevent 100% of the cases can you :) «airborne» just mail bill@microsoft.com if you don't want it to be in the _right_ hands :) «@Raven» elad too bad i thought u had another magic workaround «@Raven» :-) «@Raven» that usenet idea was good «elad» a friend of mine came up with an idea that will be a break through in this business «elad» i cant tell you the idea though «@Raven» airborne, microsoft has failed to respond to bug reports in most of the times «airborne» lemme guess, napster for haxors «@Raven» only after the exploit has been released «airborne» that's why i was being sarcastic «elad» airborne; far «elad» far from it. «elad» more of a service «airborne» i'm just kiddin y'all :) *** Joins: Gap^v^ (hackkk@202.140.124.211) «@Raven» hey Gap^v^ «jobber-d» wanna see something that will revolutionize stuff? go to freenet.sourceforge.net «jobber-d» he3y gap «@Raven» i gtg everyone «@Raven» send me the logs if u can «@Raven» barakirs@netvision.net.il «Gap^v^» i get it~ «Gap^v^» ^^ «@Raven» even if it's not the whole thing *** Joins: kript0n (kript0n@coias1-p40.telepac.pt) «@Raven» cya «jobber-d» cya raven *** Quits: Raven (~irc@ras2-p139.hfa.netvision.net.il) (Raven has no reason)